WotLK Raiding Changes: What do they mean?

By now I’m sure that everyone has heard that raid instances in Wrath of the Lich King will be built for both 10-man groups as well as 25-man groups. This is causing quite the commotion, most of it is positive, and I have feel the same way. I think many more players are seeing this as a positive than players seeing this as a negative. In fact, I can really only think of one group who wouldn’t like this: the hardest of hard-core raiders. The guilds with players like this. They don’t feel that every player should have the right to see the content that they busted their humps trying to get through. Well, my friends, you are quite wrong. Last time I checked, everyone was paying the same monthly fee, and that same monthly fee bought the same content for everyone, not just the people who have more time to raid or are part of a bigger guild than the rest of us. Now let’s take a look at just what this means.

On the positive side, smaller guilds will have the same access that bigger guilds have simply due to numbers. This can’t be understated, due to the sheer number of players who will be able to participate in more than one raiding instance, which is currently available to them now. Obviously, there is a difficulty factor to be considered, any getting any 10 players together will not necessarily mean that they will be able to get through the content. They will still need to be skilled players who know what they are doing.

On the negative side… well, whiny elitists will only get whinier because they aren’t so elite anymore, and everyone will see what they get to see. The one thing that I did see that made me side with them A LITTLE BIT was that they would have to run through these instances with 10 man groups and then again with 25 man groups. That said, I still think they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Why? Because there have been far too many instances in the history of WoW (MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxxramas, SSC, TK, BT, SP) that have been restricted to an incredibly small portion of all WoW players, and the rest have never (or barely) set foot in these places. The number of players who have been to Karazhan are infinitely higher, and do you want to know why? It’s because they require 10 players, not 25 or 40. Why wouldn’t you want to allow all of your players to see this content? It means that a great deal more players will have a lot more content that they will have access to, which means they will be happy players for much longer, which in turn means more money for Blizzard. Smart, huh? They have realized that money isn’t being made by keeping the hard-core raiders happy. It’s being made from the other 9.5 million players who deserve to have access to all content, regardless of guild size. If they can keep the hardcore raiders happy in the process, that’s great, but they are after all a very, very small percentage of the player base.

The other thing to consider is that gear will be better from the 25-man raids. Don’t even try to tell me that this isn’t the ultimate reason you are raiding in the first place, either. I really don’t think most people raiding Black Temple right now are doing it because it’s fun. After the fifth time or so you’ve run an instance, you’re primarily doing it for loot. Don’t get me wrong, the first time you set foot in a new instance and every time you slay a new boss, you are completely stoked. This can fade rather quickly, though. Let me tell you from experience; When you get into high-end guilds that run Black Temple and Sunwell Plateau, they aren’t doing it to socialize and hang out with friends. They are there to conquer and get “phat lewtz.”

You might say that this would still be the case for 10-mans. Players will just get bored with those eventually, too. This isn’t quite the case with Karazhan however, because it’s not quite as intense as some of the higher end raids (once you get used to it.) Once you get a solid group of players, it can become a social event. That said, I don’t know how the difficulty of 10-mans will change (if at all) with the expansion, but even if they do get harder, smaller guilds will still have the option of attempting these instances, rather than simply wishing they could. Then, if they struggle and can’t complete the content that the hardcore raiders can, they can stick it in their face, but anyone should at least have the chance to have a go at it.

The other option that this leaves players is to leave their 25-man guilds to form smaller, more tight-knit guilds with their friends, and still be able to enjoy the same content as the guild they just left. Granted, they won’t get the same gear as before, but at least they can still experience the same things. Having smaller guilds oftentimes (not always) means less drama. For one thing, you don’t need to organize nearly as many players to get through a raid. The chance of players getting at each others throats for one reason or another is much smaller, as there are less players in general. Small guilds aren’t perfect, however, and there are still a lot of benefits to being part of a bigger guild.

I can see one problem forming already, and it affects the larger guilds. It’s the same problem that players faced with Burning Crusade. When everyone first starts getting to 70 and players are looking to raid, I can tell you who’s going to be filling those raid slots in the 10-mans… officers. It will be interesting to see how this gets dealt with.

Well, I could probably keep going for hours on this, but I have somewhere I need to be, and I really wanted to get this up before I left. Hopefully it’s coherent enough to follow in any case. Let me know what you think.



13 comments so far

  1. Averice on

    Talk about biased.

    Anyway, you say that 10 man raid slots in large guilds will be filled mainly by officers? I think you fail to realize that if it’s a large guild, then it doesn’t matter. The 10 man raid is Not a precursor to the 25 man raid, much as many considered Karazhan to be. The 10 man raid is being touted as a separate path, not a stepping stone.

    I can tell you from experience, that high end raiding is not solely about loot. Yes, that is the reason why people go to the raid but that does not mean the time spent has to be a chore. Even if you’re killing that boss, or wiping on him, for the 20th time, it can be painful, but depending on the people you’re with the adverse effects can be tempered.

    You make it sound as if all the large guilds are hardcore and want to eat non raiders alive. WoW isn’t a hard game, getting 25 people together with the right classes and personalities for 4 hours 3 or more times a week is.

    Just like with Karazhan, the first 10 man raid is going to be easy in WotLK. Does that mean the remaining 10 man raids are going to be the same? Blizzard went a great direction with the timed events in ZA for a number of reasons. Blizzard has stated that with each expansion, there are entry level raids and that the difficulty ramps up from there. I agree that more people should be able to see more of the content involved, especially considering the amount of time that the Dev’s put into producing raid content.

    Guilds broke up due to the 40 man to 25 man raid change, even more because of the restriction where a 10 man raid was considered a stepping stone to a 25 man one. There’s no real reason for guilds to further break apart with WotLK coming out.

    You tell the elitists to “suck it up and deal with it” when honestly, it doesn’t seem like you’re doing much of that yourself. Blizzard is streamlining MMO raiding in a way that no one has ever done before, coming forward and telling us exactly how it’s going to work. There will be Instance 1. It will consist of a 10 man raid with Tier 0 and a 25 man raid with Tier 1. Arena Season 1 will happen. The next raid instance will open, a 10 man raid with either Tier 1 or Tier 1.5 loot drops, and a 25 man raid with Tier 2. Arena Season 2 will then happen. Raid instance 2 will be “more challenging” then raid instance 1. That’s all there is to it.

    Many people feel that they deserve more than what they got for in game achievements. The game is different now though, Blizzard is openly stating how it is different, and people will either adapt or quit. Like you said, non-elitist raiders will enjoy these changes and perhaps elite raiders won’t. It’s really no different from the hardcore PvP argument versus what WoW has implemented(lol darkfall, ever?). I just disagree with the attitude you inject into your statements.

    Averice, Currently of Warsong

  2. Dorelliun on

    Blizzard is far from comfortable being on top, believe it. There are lots of new games on the horizon and I can tell you (also from experience) that WoW has passed its peak. I would guess that they are literally busting their collective asses trying to get their release out before Warhammer hits. Because I’ll tell you what boys and girls…that’s a game that EVERYONE has been waiting for. WoW will become what Trammel was to Ultima Online….for carebears. (If you don’t already believe that…)

    My issue remains to be the one complaint I’ve always had in these games….not enough enforcement of their own rules. Greed trumps everything else, as usual, and the whining masses who want the fish to leap out of the lake into their frying pan already cleaned, spiced and battered have literally twisted the game into a complete fucking joke. When just one company is harsh enough to IP ban for life the next player that invites me to have carnal relations with my mother…they will earn my respect. Or actually put in place a system that actually punishes cheaters and exploiters by denying them the ability to play the game ever again, then I’ll empathize with a company that makes roughtly $20 million a month ignoring us. How about a company actually listens to players and responds with something other than thinly veiled ridicule and disdain. Blizzard lost me the moment they caved in to the pussies among you.

    WoW will hopefully soon be a ghost town and I for one am relieved. The next game that comes out affords me the ability to kick the living shit out of whomever looks at me crosseyed, with or without provocation, and I like that. It’s time for the humility bat, and mine has nails in it. I still play Lineage 2 for just that reason….no crying whining little pussies and no punks that talk smack from behind a bubble of invulnerability. If someone pisses you off, you can kill them and take their stuff. THAT’S what I crave. If more people played the game with consequences in mind (fire bad—cake good) they might actually grow a spine with a brain on the top.

    Warhammer can’t get here fast enough.

  3. emerson on

    I really like your explanation of theory, and it hit home with me on many levels.

    I remember a time when I was raiding MC for Benediction, and i will be doing so again for My BE Priest, BTW has 4 of 6 High Warlord pvp gear!

    Maybe some can relate, but im going to go into it anyways.

    Times most rememberable are stepping into BWL with a high end guild. (you wan’t me to What? Spam Circle of Healing!)

    Or even better, just sitting next to my best bro (holy paladin) in kara, drinking water, knowing how great we where pulling the raid along with our leet heals.

    I raid because i enjoy the social atmosphere, something you don’t usually get in pugs. I enjoy getting gear upgrades, and chillin in IF with my weapons out riding my horse. But being a player from WoW 1.0 i still play for the oportunity to create more memories and friendships in game.

    I mean, what can be better then making new friends, and not worrying about the people on your /ignore list. BTW, i clear every few months because i forgot why they where there.

  4. Hudson on

    “Warhammer can’t get here fast enough.”

    Just wondering how all this played out for you. I dont see WoW being a ghost town yet, but rather see WAR servers empty at low levels

  5. Nofare on

    They just opened wow up so noobs that hang around in there social guilds can do shit. Wows a game, not a social website, get off your lazy asses and play the game properly, the whole fun part of raiding is spending large amounts of time wiping on bosses and then finally downing them and getting ahead of the other guilds competeing against you in content. Soon lazy RP noobs will be able to get up to the same content as you even though you put your heart and soul into downing the same content.

  6. Angrod on

    So its out now, how are people feeling? 25th of november got to 80 and kill all content in what 4 days.

  7. Samljer on

    Angrod you moron, they have only put in like
    5% of the new content. Getting to 80 and
    checking out Naxxramas isnt all content. wtf

  8. Angrod on

    I guess I should of wrote all currently released content for Samljer the retard.


    By now Im sure more guilds have done the same. 5% 10% 50% I dont give a F it is still freaking pathetic.

    Malygos the Spellweaver, guardian of magic in all Azeroth, said to possess power rivaling that of a demigod, was taken down in gear obtained at level 70. Sartharion and Naxx were cleared with a group of 20 people at its first half – the type of thing that would happen when guilds did Onyxia for kicks, back in vanilla.

    But I will do the same and hold back judgment till 3.1.

  9. pwnlolcakez on


  10. Ballsosteel on

    This could be the worst write-up on WOTLK raids I have ever seen.

    Yes we all pay the monthly bill and should get to see the content, but there must be limits in a MMO, the high end players from TBC at least get Hand Of Ad’al … oh wait they didnt because 3.0 fucked that over when they let people pug for the title. Ok then we have our Amani War Bears, this is something the high end raiders like myself have to show for what we did, now everyone can do anything. Ok then “We all pay the same bill” “Lets make it fair” etc etc, but the content is just too easy now there is not point in raiding, raiding isnt about getting new gear etc, its about having a challenge which is what WOTLK lacks, and is what your trying to defend.

    Bring back Naxxramas 40 man and SWP raids, these raids where if people were seen with gear from them, then other people could have some respect for them, then casual gamers came along …

    For example in TBC, if you wanted to play casuall you did BG’s, you did Kara, Gruul and Maggy etc, maybe SSC/TK for a few bosses. If you wanted to hardcore raid you went SWP, if you hardcore PvP’d you got an arena team. Everyone had there fair share, casuall gamers, harcore PvP/PvE’rs. I dont see how the game must cater for JUST the casuall gamers in making PvP imbalanced and PvE piss easy.

    I think that if you walk into a raid, find it really easy walk around and get some gear your fucking retarded. Progression is all the fun in raiding, spending a few hundred gold on flasks, food buffs, wep buffs and repair bills isnt the nicest thing to do but after progressing for a few weeks on a boss then killing it is a damn good feeling and the vent atmosphere etc. Where is the good feeling in walking into Anub’Rekhan, 2 mins later he is dead, your 2 badges, 10 gold and maybe an epic better off? Thats not fun that bull shit.

    So I will stop ranting now and im just saying that casuall gamers have pissed all over what WoW used to be and lots of people have stopped playing because of this. Also people who go to BT and SWP like myself, I went for the banter on vent, the good times and atmosphere etc I didnt go to get “Phat Lewtz” or w/e your calling it now. This is just your steriotypical view, I suggest you join a hardcore PvE guild and see what it is really like sir as you are mistaken. Also can you please spend 10,000+ gold wiping in SWP then have the 3.0 patch come along and have PUGS go in there and kill it? See how that feels because I will have you know you wont fucking like it.

  11. Rimmy on

    Hey BTW Warhammer sucked. WoW is still the best mmo out there and its hard to get away from it. The raids in WoTLK are awesome, and they’re going to be a lot more than TBC because I don’t think there will be another expansion pack.

  12. lolfailsauce on

    Obviously this article is written by a noob who’s never been in a high end guild and really knew what “accomplishment” felt like to down a new boss with 39 other teammates, after wiping for weeks on end.

  13. mystic. on

    blizzard has said to be making a warcraft 4.. dk if its tru but its wht ive heard. hopefuly they aree. maybe in future there might be world of warcraft 2. neva noo peoples anythink cud happen. lataazz.

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